From DrT-3d@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Tue Apr 05 00:33:27 1997 Subject: Re: Egw kai n Hellas ========== From: "Dr. George A. Themelis" Subject: Egw kai n Hellas - Meros Prwto Ta meln tns Hellas mporouv va katatagouv se 3 katngories: 1. Ellnves ev Elladi ('i8ageveis') 2. Ellnves 'in-transition' (foitntes tou e3wterikou) 3. Ellnves tou e3wterikou (6 xrovia kai pavw) Mou exouv pei oti n lista sxnmatistnke apo kai gia tous foitntes (#2). Epeidn omws autn eivai mia metabatikn periodos, autn n katngoria 8a kataln3ei n' stnv #1 n' stnv #3, giauto kai prepei va perimevoume poio polla meln apo autes tis katngories sto mellov. Egw eimai tupiko melos tns 3ns katngorias kai 8elw va sas dwsw va katalablete pws blepw ta pragmata apo tnv 8esn autn. Meta apo 13 xrovia makrua apo tnv Ellada exw xasei tis epafes mou me filous Ellnves tns Elladas kai exw liges epafes me Ellnves pou eivai skorpismevoi se diafora mern tns Amerikns. Edw sto Cleveland exw movo tnv Ellnvikn ekklnsia me tou vtopious Ellnvoamerikavous, tous opoious as snmeiw8ei oti ektimw polu gia tnv 8elnsn tous va diatnrnsouv tnv katagwgn tous kai ta Ellnvika n8n kai e8ima kai va ma8ouv sta paidia tous Ellnvika, av kai oi perissoteroi exouv gevvn8ei stnv Amerikn kai exouv xasei epafn me tnv mntera Ellada. Exw pavtreutei kai Amerikavida kai pame Ellada ka8e duo xrovia gia duo bdomades movo. Sto spiti milame Agglika kai ta aggeloudia mou (o Avtwvns 5 kai n Basilikn 8) ta paw sto "krufo sxoleio" (Ellnviko sxoleio tns Ekklnsias) va ma8ouv pevte Ellnvikes le3oules... As snmeiw8ei oti ekei didaskw kai egw Ellnvika sav e8elovtns mia kai eimai o movos govios pou exei teleiwsei sxoleio stnv Ellada!... Me duo logia, drama n katastasn... Edw kai 2 xrovia "avakaluya" tnv gluka tou email kai mesw tou hobby mou, to opoio, se periptwsn pou dev sas to'xw pei:-), eivai n STEREOSKOPIKH FWTOGRAFIA, exw er8ei se epafn me ekatovtades atoma se olo tov kosmo, apo Iapwvia ws Australia. H apomakruvsn mou apo tnv Ellada me exei kavei upernfavo pou eimai Ellnvas kai mou exei ferei mia pragmatikn laxtara va epikoivwvisw me allous Ellnves. Ma eivai duvatov va gvwrizw av8rwpous apo ta pevte perata tou kosmou, va filo3evw sto spiti mou Germavous kai Neo Znlavdous, kai va mnv 3erw ELLHNES;;; Auta pros to parov... Qa suvexisw me tnv istoria tns zwns mou sto epomevo... -- Giwrgos ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 17:18:25 -0500 From: "Dr. George A. Themelis" Subject: Egw kai n Hellas - Meros Deutero Egw kai n Hellas - Meros Deutero (e, vai,eivai serial!) Sas e3ngnsa tnv katastasn mou, sav Ellnvas tou e3wterikou, kai tnv laxtara mou va er8w se epafn me allous Ellnves. Me tov kaivourgio upologistn sto spiti, perisu tetoia epoxn, n8ela va grayw Ellnvika alla dev n3era pws. Opoiov eblepa me Ellnviko ovoma sta diafora photography newsgroups tov rwtaga "Are you Greek?" Telika brnka evav Ellnva kai tou zntnsa va me bon8nsei me to grayimo Ellnvikwv. Autos rwtnse tnv Hellas (dev n3era egw ti eivai n Hellas) kai mou epestrepse kamia dekaria mails apavtnseis sto problnma mou. Telika to problnma to elusa, alla twra n8ela va ma8w ti eivai n Hellas? Tov rwtnsa autov alla dev apavtnse. Rwtnsa kai merikous apo autous pou apavtnsav stnv Hellas, meta3u twv opoiwv kai o Bill Povtikakns, kai pali apavtnsn dev pnra. Hdn erxomai se epafn me to prwto xaraktnristiko twv Ellnvwv: Dev apavtouv se proswpiko email!!!! To afnsa loipov to 8ema gia merikous mnves, wspou mou efe3e kai lew (apo tnv empeiria apo alles listes) as steilw eva "subscribe Hellas" sto listserv@(tns dieu8uvsns opou nr8av oi apavtnseis) kai blepoume... It works!!!! To 'subscribe' prepei va givei 'approve', mou nr8e eva mnvuma. Evw loipov perimeva to Sabbatokuriako va givw 'approved', petaga apo tnv xara mou. Epitelous!!! To oveiro mou givetai pragmatikotnta. Mia lista Ellnvwv. Edw 8a mou lu8ouv oles oi apories. Edw 8a brw vea apo tnv Ellada. Edw 8a brw allous Ellnves tou e3wterikou va koubevtiasoume gia ta koiva mas problnmata. Edw 8a er8w se epafn me summa8ntes mou kai sumfoitntes mou. Edw mporei va psnsw telika kai kavevav Ellnva va asxoln8ei me tnv stereoskopikn fwtografia. Edw 8a brw Ellnves va mou dwsouv idees gia tnv didaskalia twv Ellnvikwv. Kai kuriws, edw 8a gvwrisw merika a3iologa paidia, va givoume filoi kai isws va suvantn8oume se Ellada n Amerikn. Petaga apo tnv xara mou, sas lew!!! Sto epomevo: H prosgeiwsn... ;) Mega eisai Hellas kai to meageio Sou.... --- Giwrgos (to be continued...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 17:46:42 -0500 From: "Dr. George A. Themelis" Subject: Egw kai n Hellas - Meros Trito Egw kai n Hellas - Meros Trito (suvexizw aka8ektos ;)) Sas eipa loipov gia tnv laxtara mou va epikoivwvisw me Ellnves kai gia tnv xara mou pou brnka tnv lista HELLAS kai perimeva va mou er8ouv ta prwta digests. Gurisa loipov sto spiti tnv Deutera kai blepw, me megaln ekpln3n, oti to post box mou ntav pvigmevo se email. Ti givetai re paidia; Gurw sta 100 mnvumata apo tnv Hellas. Ta exasa o kakomoirns.... Paw va diabasw merika apo auta ta grammata, kai blepw perierga pragmata... Kapoia kopella me to ovoma "Lnda" kai upografn "To arxidiabolaki" va brizetai me kapoiov, kapoios "Petropoulos" va tsakwvetai me kapoiov allo... Na kai o Bill o Olumpiakaras va mas leei pws pndage tnv gkomeva kai tou efuge to profulaktiko kai "avnsuxise"! Kati poluselides politikes avafores apo tnv Ouasigktov... gevika, xavei n mava to paidi kai to paidi tnv mava!!! Tsirko, kafeveio, mpourdelo, oti 8es pesto.... pavtws "lista", opws egw n3era tnv snmasia tnv le3ns, autn dev ntav! :-) Autes eivai oi prwtes eilikriveis evtpwseis. H prwtn mou skepsn ntav oti n lista autn apoteleitai kuriws apo 20rndes foitntes to e3wterikou pou bgazouv t'apw8nmeva tous. Hmouva etoimos va grapsw kai va rwtnsw to e3ns: "Kaln kai autn n lista sas... Twra dwste mou tnv dieu8uvsn tns 'sobarns' listas, tns listas pou apoteleitai apo av8rwpous tns nlikias mou, 35 kai pavw, oi opoioi suzntouv se pio politismevo epipedo." (Kala pou dev to esteila auto telika...) Na favtastnte oti mexri ekeivn tnv stigmn, mia movo fora eixa brisei sto Usenet, otav apolalesa "idiot" evav pavnli8io pou mas ta eixe prn3n olwv sto newsgroup rec.photo.marketplace. Afou esteila to mnvuma metaviwsa, m'epiase pavikos kai dev mporousa va koimn8w to bradu skeftomevos oti prepei va ya3w va brw dikngoro!!! Auto to lew gia va deite to ti snmaivei prosgeiwsn Hellas-style! O ari8mos twv mails ntav pragmatika problnma gia kapoiov pou dev tsekarei email ka8e wra... Mou ekoye 3ava kai brnka pws va to gurisw se DIGEST kai brnka tnv ugeia mou... Arxisa loipov va pairvw ta arxeia twv 200K kai bale, ta opoia spave se mikrotera twv 50K stnv Eudora mou. Ta arxeia auta ta diabaza ka8e bradu ta mesavuxta sta petaxta. Eida oti upnrxav kai evdiaferovta mnvumata... kai sobaroi av8rwpoi... Av kai n pleioynfia ntav gia a8lntika kai politikn, duo 8emata ta opoia gia osous evai sto e3wteriko gia polla xrovia, exouv xasei kapws to evdiaferov tous... To be continued...avte, 8a emfavistei kai o Sta8hs opou va'vai!!! -- Giwrgos ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 21:03:32 -0500 From: "Dr. George A. Themelis" Subject: Egw kai n Hellas - Meros Tetarto Egw kai n Hellas - Meros Tetarto (vomizw tetarto... exw xasei to metrnma;)) Sas eipa loipov pws brnka kai mpnka stnv Hellas kai ta exasa me tnv atmosfaira kafeve kai to geviko brisidi kai malwmata... Stnv arxn eixa problnma me to va DIABAZW ta Ellnvika auta (to va grafw dev suzntiotav) Sto prwto mou posting stnv Hellas, rwtnsa, sav tov Avtwvn B. twra me to "mapping" tou, av uparxei kapoia sumbasn stnv epilogn twv xaraktnrwv. Apo ta 500+ atoma tns Hellas pnra movo mia proswpikn apavtnsn, apo tov PETROPOULO kaln tou wra kai timn tou! O Petros apavtnse se ola ta emails mou alla ntav ligo biastikos kai egw nmouv epifulaktikos giati tnv idia stigmn eixe (o Petros) dialogo me kapoious stnv lista kai tov ebrizav (mporei va ntav filika auta, egw dev katalabaiva tnv diafora). Ekava kai eva allo posting milwvtas gia tov eauto mou kai pnra merikes proswpikes apavtnseis... To problnma mou twra ntav oti me polu duskolia mporousa va grayw mia grammn Ellnvo-Lativikwv, opote epestreya sta stereoskopika mou kai afnsa tnv Hellas va trexei se digest. Se kapoia stigmn prose3a au3nmevn kivnsn stnv Hellas, xarn se mia vea proswpikotnta pou eixe emfavistei kai akouge sto ovoma "Giwrgos Sta8ns". Polla apo ta grafomeva tou Giwrgou mou favnkav e3airetika evdiaferovta, eidika otav milouse gia ta Usenet kai to culture.greek, tou opoiou tnv upar3n agvoousa, to programma GRENGL pou metafraze Ellnvika se ellnvo-lativika, klp. Oi kaugades tou me alla atoma tns listas, mou favnkav kai autoi evdiaferovtes... Se kapoia periodo nmouv polu apasxolnmevos kai dev parakolou8ousa kai ekava delete merika digests xwris va ta diabasw. Mia mera, blepw oti exw proswpiko mnvuma apo tov Sta8n, to opoio mou favnke polu periergo, mia kai edw egrafa se Ellnves kai dev apavtousav... Fusika, to 'proswpiko' tou Sta8n ntav to email pou esteile sta perissotera atoma tns listas, ektos listas. To diabasa kai egw kai ebgala to e3ns sumperasma, to opoio tou esteila, kai to opoio se aptaista Ellnvika elege: "George my boy, get a life!!!!" Pros megaln mou ekpln3n, tnv epomevn mera eixa apavtnsn apo tov Giwrgo, o opoios, episns se aptaista Ellnvika mou eipe: "How about getting a clue Doctor???" Re poustn mou, skeftnka, ti givetai edw;;; Edw grafeis eugevika kai dev sou apavtave. Prosbaleis kapoiov kai sou apavta!!! Eri3a mia matia stnv Hellas kai, pera apo tov Sta8n pou polemage tnv "klika", etuxe o Papadas va grayei kati friktes istories gia kapoiov Leo pou tou efage tnv kopela kai tou ekleise to account kai ekave diafora se diaforous, etuxe kai o Xrnstos Ktevas va grayei to "Firm '97" (tnv opoia pnra sta sobara!) kai ta exasa... Ti brwma eivai ki'autn skeftnka... To be (unfortunately) continued.... -- Giwrgos ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 21:36:42 -0500 From: "Dr. George A. Themelis" Subject: Egw kai n Hellas - Meros Pempto Egw kai n Hellas - Meros Pempto (avte, opou va'vai teliwvoume!) Sas eipa loipov pws gvwrisa tov Sta8n... Se proswpikn epikoivwvia ntav aristos. Mou esteile kai to programma pou metafrazei ta Ellnvika mou (sta opoia eixa givei 3efteri) se ellnvo-lativika kai mou eluse tnv glwssa... Mexri kai tnv adelfn mou stamatnse va xairetnsei stnv A8nva kai va tns dwsei tous xairetismous mou. Tote loipov egraya to "Opou Giwrgos kai malama" giati pragmatika pisteua (kai akoma pisteuw) oti o Giwrgos kai kalo paidi eivai kai kapoia upostnri3n xreiazetai... Egrapsa kai gia to programma metafrasns, alla mallov auto epese se la8os lista giati autoi pou eivai ndn stnv Hellas dev exouv auto to problnma. Autoi pou to exouv to problnma eivai ap'e3w. Tote mou tnv epese kai o Petropoulos (n avafora tou ovomatos tou Sta8n prepei va eixe kapoia sxesn) giati exw PC, eimai asxetos peri Unix, klp, kai exw to "Dr" sto ovoma mou! Mou faivetai oti me eipe yeutn kai pavnli8io, alla ek twv usterwv, me osa exoume akousei teleutaia, autes dev eivai sobares brisies, giauto kai egw dev tis pnra sta sobara. Me tnv avami3n mou me tnv lista kai tous Hellasites, eva pragma mou ekave evtupwsn: Oi Ellnves upagovtai se treis katngories: 1) Se autous pou dev apavtouv se kaveva proswpiko mou email, 2) Se autous pou apavtouv mia fora kai terma, 3) Se autous pou apavtouv polu kofta kai biastika tou stul "mnv 3avagrapseis". Oloi prepei va eivai polu 'busy' av kai merikoi dev eivai 'busy enough' va stelvouv kamposa Kbytes mail ka8e mera stnv Hellas. Alloi laoi kai 8amwves allwv lists, eivai diaforetikoi... alla edw gevikeuw asxnma. Yparxouv kai mia-duo fwteives e3aireseis s'auto tov kavova, kai mia eivai o Xrnstos Ktevas. Otav 3avadiabasa to 'Firm '97' argotera, to brnka fobera asteio kai empveusmevo, ka8ara pavw apo to epipedo twv suvn8ismevwv asteiwv tns listas. Mou ekave episns evtupwsn pws auto eivai apo ta liga asteia keimeva pou dev eivai grammevo evavtiov evos atomou n mias omadas atomwv, alla evavtiov olwv!!! Oses fores egraya stov Xrnsto, mou apavtnse kai telika nmouv egw autos pou stamatnsa tov dialogo! Kai eva allo pragma pou mou kavei evtupwsn: Autoi pou mou exouv fer8ei eugevika kai exouv epistreyei ta emails mou (Sta8ns, Beatrikn, Ktevas, Augusta, Bobolos) eivai oloi stnv Ellada. Dev 3erw av auto eivai sumptwsn n' av leei kati... kai av leei kati, ti eivai auto pou leei;;; Avte, teleiwsa... movo o epilogos emeive... -- Giwrgos ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 22:14:22 -0500 From: "Dr. George A. Themelis" Subject: Egw kai n Hellas - Epilogos Egw kai n Hellas - Epilogos Ti me tsimpnse kai ta grafw ola auta, 8a avarwtiosaste... Se apavtnsn pros tov Giwrgo Bobolo, prospa8nsa va sas dwsw tnv eikova tns Hellas, opws tnv eide evas 3evitemevos Ellnvas... Egw mpnka stnv Hellas me ka8aro mualo kai xwris filous va me pro.i.dopoinsouv n' ka8odngnsouv. Dev eixa va apodei3w tipota, dev eixa va poulnsw tipota, dev exw va kruyw tipota. Mpnka stnv Hellas me mia laxtara va gvwrisw kai va milnsw me allous Ellnves... Stnv Hellas brnka basika eva xaos... Eva suvolo faivomevika (ta faivomeva merikes fores apatouv) egwkevtrikwv atomwv pou prospa8ouv va 3eperasouv o evas tov allov stis e3upvades... (milaw gia autous pou grafouv taktika) evw dev exouv kairo va apavtnsouv kai va ka8odngnsouv eva veofermevo. Oso pio "wraia" ("e3upva", prosblntika) kapoios apavta stov Sta8n, toso poio polous povtous kerdizei stnv upoloiyn twv upoloipwv... Auto eivai gegovos. Stnv Hellas, mexri kai prwta8lnma uparxei (giauto kai egw espasa to keimevo auto se polla kefalaia!!!) se avagvwrisn twv oswv grafouv akatalogista kai asullogista! Mou eipe o Giwrgos B. va kavw egw tnv arxn kai va grapsw oti me eviaferei, va ferw egw tov "ka8aro aera" stnv lista. Telika to agapnmevo mou 8ema kateln3e va eivai "n kritikn tns listas"! To kaloskeftnka to pragma kai kateln3a sto e3ns sumperasma. Av kapoios sugkevtrwvei ta parakatw xaraktnristika: 1. Dev evdiaferetai gia Ellnvikn politikn / A8lntika. 2. Dev exei exei ba8eies upar3iakes/filosofikes avnsuxies. 3. Dev exei sobarn kosmo8ewria va perasei stous upoloipous. 4. Dev exei magkia kai tsampouka va poulnsei. 5. Dev exei eidiko Ellnviko subject (prosbasn se avakoivwseis tns Ouasivgktov, aptaistn gvwsn arxaiwv Ellnvikwv, klp, klp) 6. Dev exei apsogo 'sense of humor' (epipedo Kwstobasiln kai pavw, leme... oxi asteia!!!) Av dnladn kapoios eivai apla evas "mesos Ellnvas" (akoma kai Ntoktor).... TOTE DEN EXEI TIPOTA APOLYTWS NA GRAPSEI STHN HELLAS... Opws egw gia paradeigma... To va eisai Ellnvas kai va yaxveis gia Ellnvikn epikoivwvia... dev metraei kai polu edw... Loipov, egw eipa osa eixa va pw, to ebgala apo to sustnma mou (gi'auto n Hellas eivai prwto farmako!) kai epistrefw sta "taxes" mou kai tnv steroskopikn fwtografia mou. Eva pragma pavtws ema8a stnv Hellas: Na grafw Ellnvika me Lativikous xaraktnres (exw stamatnsei va xrnsimopoiw to programma tou Sta8n pro pollou...) Twra bebaia to problnma eivai oti dev mporw va grayw kavovika Ellnvika pleov. Skeftomai loipov va grayw gramma stous goveis mou se ellnvo-lativika, kai va balw to programma tou Sta8n va douleyei avtistrofa kai va to metafrasei se Ellnvika!!!!! MEGALE STAQH... TA PANTA EN SOFIA EPOIHSES... MHN FYGEIS RE STAQH... H LISTA SE XREIAZETAI!!!!!! Kalnvuxta kai xairetw! -- Giwrgos Qemelns -----end